Episode 22
Perfect Prep
Heather Campbell, Nonprofit Partner and Executive Recruiter with ThinkingAhead Executive Search, breaks down her process for prepping and debriefing clients and candidates, including the STAR method, not forgetting to lean into your results, the importance of phoning a friend, and more.
Transcript
Hello, and welcome to The Talent Trade.
Stephanie Maas:This is Stephanie Maas with ThinkingAhead Executive Search.
Stephanie Maas:Super excited to be here today with one of our rock stars from
Stephanie Maas:the nonprofit team. Heather Campbell. Heather, welcome.
Heather Campbell:Thank you.
Stephanie Maas:Go ahead and tell us a little bit about you,
Stephanie Maas:and anything you think our listeners would want to know.
Heather Campbell:My name is Heather Campbell, I live in
Heather Campbell:Minneapolis, Minnesota, born and raised Minnesotan. I've been
Heather Campbell:with thinking ahead for a little over five years now, sort of in
Heather Campbell:April of 2019. I'm on the nonprofit team. And I focus on
Heather Campbell:working with nonprofits that really work with human rights,
Heather Campbell:equity and equality, as well as the social impact spaces.
Stephanie Maas:Well welcome. We're super excited to have you
Stephanie Maas:here. And another thing that I'm super excited about is kind of
Stephanie Maas:your topic I remember many years ago, learning from kind of one
Stephanie Maas:of thinking ahead gurus and him saying at one point that at the
Stephanie Maas:end of the day, if a search is meant to come together, it will
Stephanie Maas:with or without us. And he shared that to kind of take the
Stephanie Maas:pressure off, especially because when he shared it with me, quite
Stephanie Maas:frankly, I was rather new to the practice. But at the same time,
Stephanie Maas:he also said that, hey, when you have opportunity to earn your
Stephanie Maas:keep in a search, kind of take it serious and make sure that
Stephanie Maas:you really are if you're going to be a part of it, make sure
Stephanie Maas:you really are earning your keep as a facilitator of that
Stephanie Maas:process. And that's something I think that we're going to talk a
Stephanie Maas:lot about today with you.
Heather Campbell:And I love that I think that prepping and
Heather Campbell:debriefing the candidates and the clients during this part of
Heather Campbell:the process, they probably do great without us. But at the
Heather Campbell:same time, it's that like additional sort of icing on the
Heather Campbell:cake to make sure stuff goes really well. I'm also a big
Heather Campbell:process driven person. So if this is something that could
Heather Campbell:manage in that process, I love it.
Stephanie Maas:And you know, it's funny too, because through
Stephanie Maas:the years, the folks that we represent both on the client
Stephanie Maas:side and the candidate side, they're not professional
Stephanie Maas:interviewers. So I think this is an area where in terms of
Stephanie Maas:prepping and debriefing them, we have a huge opportunity to make
Stephanie Maas:a difference. Because oftentimes people are incredible what they
Stephanie Maas:do, but they don't know how to advocate for themselves. They
Stephanie Maas:don't, you know, hey, it's been five years since I interviewed
Stephanie Maas:last, or I'm usually when doing the interviewing. So I think
Stephanie Maas:this is a super valuable topic. So jump right in, walk us
Stephanie Maas:through your philosophy a little bit. And then just walk us
Stephanie Maas:through how you do what you do.
Heather Campbell:And so from a philosophy standpoint, prepping
Heather Campbell:and debriefing is is just part of our process in general,
Heather Campbell:right. So it's not necessarily this big new thing or something
Heather Campbell:that I'm sure a lot of search firms do. But I think that we do
Heather Campbell:it really, really well. And I enjoy it, it's actually my
Heather Campbell:favorite part of my job. Because I get to build stronger
Heather Campbell:relationships with both, you know, the client, the hiring
Heather Campbell:manager, maybe some folks that haven't met along the way in the
Heather Campbell:process, as well as then those candidates that obviously
Heather Campbell:there's only one person that typically gets the job, you get
Heather Campbell:to still build relationships with four or five, six other
Heather Campbell:people that you never know, throughout your career, many may
Heather Campbell:bump into again. So I was going to kind of go over, you know,
Heather Campbell:break it down, what do I do with the clients and then break it
Heather Campbell:down? And you know, probably a little bit longer. What do I do
Heather Campbell:with the candidates? As far as the prep goes?
Stephanie Maas:Can we just stop there for a second, because I
Stephanie Maas:want to just spend a minute on the value that you think this
Stephanie Maas:brings from a holistic perspective, this was something
Stephanie Maas:I was taught very early on in my search career thinking ahead was
Stephanie Maas:to prep the clients. And yet, as I've been out, you know,
Stephanie Maas:networking with other recruiters attending recruiter events. This
Stephanie Maas:is a topic that I'm constantly surprised at how many folks
Stephanie Maas:don't do this. So I'd love to hear from your perspective, kind
Stephanie Maas:of why your dogged about making this a part of your process.
Heather Campbell:It's a super important piece of the process.
Heather Campbell:So that again, I can kind of know what's going on and manage
Heather Campbell:how they're going to work. But again, to your point,
Heather Campbell:oftentimes, they're great at what they do, but they are not
Heather Campbell:professional interview errs. And so being able to make sure that
Heather Campbell:they know what questions they're going to ask, and how to sort of
Heather Campbell:handle themselves in that interview. Because, frankly,
Heather Campbell:just as much as they are interviewing the candidates, you
Heather Campbell:know, those candidates are interviewing them as well to
Heather Campbell:make sure that this is a good fit. So being able to just talk
Heather Campbell:through logistics, but also how to be in the interview and how
Heather Campbell:to sort of woo the candidates to the opportunity as well. Make
Heather Campbell:sure that they have a good experience. And then I think
Heather Campbell:from an equity perspective, it's really important that every
Heather Campbell:candidate is having a similar experience and being able to
Heather Campbell:have them present themselves in a way that you know, the clients
Heather Campbell:can can see that in a very similar fashion like they're
Heather Campbell:being able to see every candidate In the same light in
Heather Campbell:the same way to be able to evaluate people from an equity
Heather Campbell:perspective.
Stephanie Maas:Do you ever get pushback from clients? How do
Stephanie Maas:you set it up with the clients that this is going to be a part
Stephanie Maas:of what you do?
Heather Campbell:Definitely early on, when we have our
Heather Campbell:kickoff call, we talked through the whole process, everything
Heather Campbell:that I'm gonna be doing, and then everything that I have, as
Heather Campbell:far as an expectation from them, I'm getting some bandwidth off
Heather Campbell:their plate by probably helping to manage schedules and get a
Heather Campbell:hold on their calendars. So that gets a little buy in because
Heather Campbell:they're like, oh, this makes things easy. But then a part of
Heather Campbell:that scheduling of interviews, were also just, I just kind of
Heather Campbell:assumed that we're going to also schedule the prep call before
Heather Campbell:all those interviews happen. So I think I start early with
Heather Campbell:talking through that, oftentimes, bIown isn't too
Heather Campbell:difficult. But they may need like, I'll tailor the amount of
Heather Campbell:prep that I do based on how much they do. So if the interview is
Heather Campbell:with HR, first off, they've got their standard list of
Heather Campbell:questions, there's maybe a little bit less that I have to
Heather Campbell:do. But then oftentimes, we'll get a panel involved. And
Heather Campbell:there'll be three or four people from the organization, that they
Heather Campbell:value, this idea of having an interview guide in front of them
Heather Campbell:being assigned questions, and going through those together to
Heather Campbell:say, who's gonna say, what? And does this question make like
Heather Campbell:sound like you? Is it something that's kind of authentic to what
Heather Campbell:you want to say? And so I would say, it's pretty rare that we
Heather Campbell:get any sort of feedback, we do get a lot of feedback on the
Heather Campbell:back end. In fact, just recently, I had a whole group of
Heather Campbell:a panel say this was the most organized, focused process we've
Heather Campbell:ever had, because of just how detailed you were.
Stephanie Maas:Super cool. And then just just for those of us
Stephanie Maas:that want, maybe you want to try this, for the first time, help
Stephanie Maas:alleviate some fear for us. If you do get pushback, saying hey,
Stephanie Maas:we're good. We don't need that. Thanks. I've held interviews
Stephanie Maas:before. How do you handle clients that maybe don't buy in
Stephanie Maas:right away or don't respond positively to your assumptive?
Stephanie Maas:Hey, we're going to do a client prep here.
Heather Campbell:I think I would suggest that we try it, I
Heather Campbell:think equity, there's a lot of organizations that are starting
Heather Campbell:to, you know, sort of start a journey from a diversity, equity
Heather Campbell:and inclusion standpoint. And oftentimes, they don't
Heather Campbell:understand that that can start all the way at the interview
Heather Campbell:process, not just when they are on boarded somebody to make sure
Heather Campbell:that they have a good experience with an organization, it is
Heather Campbell:essential that everybody is being asked the same questions.
Heather Campbell:And that an organization is treating folks with dignity and
Heather Campbell:respect through that, instead of just throwing them into an
Heather Campbell:interview process, that probably doesn't look very good. And so I
Heather Campbell:think being able to educate them on me supporting that part of
Heather Campbell:the process typically gets people to sort of say, okay,
Heather Campbell:yeah, at least we'll meet with you for a half hour.
Stephanie Maas:And if I heard you, right, it sounds like the
Stephanie Maas:way you position it is really that this is in their best
Stephanie Maas:interest. But even sometimes, so in that language of like, from a
Stephanie Maas:legal standpoint, I want to set this up to protect you. But
Stephanie Maas:again, the kudos to you is setting it up in a way that you
Stephanie Maas:don't get a lot of pushback. Okay, so then you get them on
Stephanie Maas:there, you're on your schedule, walk us through, what is this
Stephanie Maas:sound like?
Heather Campbell:Yeah, with the client prep, it's pretty basic.
Heather Campbell:Again, we talked about the scheduling of the interviews and
Heather Campbell:put together this interview guide that gets sent over to
Heather Campbell:them a few days before the prep, so that everybody involved
Heather Campbell:whether it's one person, or four, or five, and a panel gets
Heather Campbell:to see it. So everybody involved gets to have a little bit of
Heather Campbell:input. So we start off first to talk about logistics. Everybody
Heather Campbell:got the calendar invites, what are the goals of the interview?
Heather Campbell:Again, it is to evaluate a candidate, but it's also to show
Heather Campbell:the candidate a really good experience, because they are
Heather Campbell:ultimately evaluating anybody involved in the interview
Heather Campbell:process as well. We talked about the fact that salary will not be
Heather Campbell:discussed in this part of the interview and the importance of
Heather Campbell:that, because that, again, is handled through me. And it's
Heather Campbell:something that just doesn't need to muddy the waters or make
Heather Campbell:anything kind of feel off when you're talking to those
Heather Campbell:questions. And then we do schedule a debrief afterwards.
Heather Campbell:So after they've interviewed the candidates that are involved in
Heather Campbell:this part, they want to get them all on the phone together again,
Heather Campbell:for even a 30 minutes or so to just talk about how did it go.
Heather Campbell:Aside from that, though, we are having them fill out fill out
Heather Campbell:evaluation forms, either in a matrix form or you know, like a
Heather Campbell:Google form, so that they can individually share feedback, and
Heather Campbell:then I get that feedback. But then I also want to share it
Heather Campbell:kind of from their mouths together later. So I get kind of
Heather Campbell:two sides to a really good, deep, like feedback point from
Heather Campbell:an individual perspective than then kind of as a group. So the
Heather Campbell:client prep is is pretty easy. And you know, very process
Heather Campbell:driven. Now the candidate prep, I think there's a little bit
Heather Campbell:more emotion, and sort of a deeper field to how to handle
Heather Campbell:that. As I said, prepping and debriefing with candidates is
Heather Campbell:actually probably my favorite part of the job. But again, it's
Heather Campbell:something that I have set the tone for this when I started the
Heather Campbell:relationship with the candidate once I've started vetting them
Heather Campbell:and I've had multiple conversations with them. I've
Heather Campbell:submitted them to the client. I'll similarly, they were asked
Heather Campbell:to have an interview, I have told them that if they get that
Heather Campbell:interview, they will be prepping and debriefing with me all the
Heather Campbell:way through the whole process. So again, kind of trying to
Heather Campbell:build that bond and setting up that expectation that, hey,
Heather Campbell:we're going to talk a lot, and being able to kind of let them
Heather Campbell:know that they will have to share how things went both from
Heather Campbell:a logistics standpoint, from an emotional standpoint, and all
Heather Campbell:those other elements, which I think is really key to to part
Heather Campbell:of that process. So I'll usually schedule a candidate prep, you
Heather Campbell:know, 24, to 40 to 48 hours before that candidate has their
Heather Campbell:interview, before the prep call, I'll send them an email with
Heather Campbell:things like the names of the people that they'll be meeting
Heather Campbell:with what their titles are usually a link to their
Heather Campbell:LinkedIn. And then we have several good documents that we
Heather Campbell:kind of say take it or leave it. But there's a lot of value in
Heather Campbell:being able to read these interviews and to support
Heather Campbell:yourself through this. So it's a hitting the target during a
Heather Campbell:personal interview, answering the tell me about yourself
Heather Campbell:question. And then we've got a link regarding the STAR method,
Heather Campbell:and how to use that this technique to ace the next job
Heather Campbell:interview. I think a lot of times people when they answer
Heather Campbell:questions, especially behavioral questions, I talk a lot about
Heather Campbell:the situation, the tasks that they had, the actions that they
Heather Campbell:took, but they sometimes forget to really like all circle it and
Heather Campbell:bring in the results. What happened at the end, and after
Heather Campbell:all the work that you did, what were the results. And so the
Heather Campbell:that document can be really helpful for folks to sort of
Heather Campbell:review and look through, again, these preps give me face to face
Heather Campbell:time and just build a better relationship and bond with these
Heather Campbell:folks. And ultimately, I want them to trust me through the
Heather Campbell:process. Because if we get to a finish line, there's a lot of
Heather Campbell:things that we cover that I need them to share and talk me
Heather Campbell:through. So again, it's just another face to face meeting
Heather Campbell:with them that I feel is really important. Again, every
Heather Campbell:candidate usually goes through the same type of crap, we go
Heather Campbell:through the same information. And I tell them that you
Heather Campbell:probably won't be great in this interview, but it's helping you
Heather Campbell:put your best foot forward. And so again, take a look at the
Heather Campbell:information that I that I share with you here. So what I get
Heather Campbell:them on a prep call, the first question I ask is, has anything
Heather Campbell:changed since we last talked behind listening for? Are they
Heather Campbell:in other interview processes? Has their enthusiasm level
Heather Campbell:gotten higher or lower? At this point in the process? You know,
Heather Campbell:how much research have have they done? Just how are they feeling
Heather Campbell:in general? Are they somebody who typically kind of is more
Heather Campbell:relaxed? You know, are they somebody who gets really anxious
Heather Campbell:before an interview, trying to kind of get get in their head a
Heather Campbell:little bit around that. And it also lets me sort of see how
Heather Campbell:much prep work they've actually done so far, and how much I need
Heather Campbell:to kind of push them to continue to do more research or look up
Heather Campbell:more stuff? Or or, you know, how do you know the names of the
Heather Campbell:people and their titles, and you looked at where they went to
Heather Campbell:school, things like that. We'll go through logistics next. So
Heather Campbell:whether it's virtual or in person, so So the who, where
Heather Campbell:when how, what's the agenda, you know, all those kinds of things
Heather Campbell:that just really aware of, of what's happening. And then
Heather Campbell:something that I suggest that they do is schedule a call with
Heather Campbell:a friend or family member member, somebody they trust 30
Heather Campbell:minutes before an interview, somebody that can champion them
Heather Campbell:and give them just some love before their interview. But
Heather Campbell:sometimes it's not necessary if the person's a little bit more
Heather Campbell:relaxed. But if there's any outs of anxiousness, it's a fun
Heather Campbell:suggestion to just say, hey, grab a friend and tell them to
Heather Campbell:call you or you call them 30 minutes before and say you've
Heather Campbell:got this, that or you know, I think a lot of times in thinking
Heather Campbell:ahead, we talk about you know, like the power pose or saying in
Heather Campbell:front of the mirror and saying you got this, things like that.
Heather Campbell:So I encourage people to do that before and planning it before
Heather Campbell:the interview. So after we've gone through logistics, we
Heather Campbell:talked about the people they'll be meeting with. So what's their
Heather Campbell:background? What's their personality? What's their style,
Heather Campbell:you know, how do they interview, if you're the first person in an
Heather Campbell:interview, versus maybe the fifth person to go through an
Heather Campbell:interview, I may know a little less, because I haven't gotten
Heather Campbell:feedback from other candidates about how the interview process
Heather Campbell:went. But it's, it's still good. I've now talked with those
Heather Campbell:clients and the folks that they'll be meeting with because
Heather Campbell:I did the client prep. So I've got a little bit more of an
Heather Campbell:understanding on you know, who's going to be somebody that's
Heather Campbell:going to have more energy, who's going to be somebody that maybe
Heather Campbell:asks more questions is the talkative one, the facilitator,
Heather Campbell:things like that. So I'll be able to just go through that.
Heather Campbell:And I encourage people, I want them to be authentic in
Heather Campbell:themselves in an interview process, because that's going to
Heather Campbell:be how they show up for work every day. But I think it's also
Heather Campbell:super important to balance and match sort of the level of
Heather Campbell:energy that the interviewees are giving off. And, you know, if
Heather Campbell:they're kind of call calm, cool collected, it's probably more so
Heather Campbell:how you should be but if you've got someone who's high energy,
Heather Campbell:they don't lean into that and also sort of match that energy.
Heather Campbell:So, again, authenticity is really important, but I think
Heather Campbell:there's also something to be said about just kind of like a
Heather Campbell:self aware understanding of who you're with. Okay, the interview
Heather Campbell:questions, you know, what can be expected? What do they need to
Heather Campbell:prepare for? I don't actually give them the exact questions
Heather Campbell:and the list of things that they're going to say, well,
Heather Campbell:we'll talk about the essence of the question and sort of why are
Heather Campbell:they asking it? This is the question that you're going to be
Heather Campbell:having to talk about ABC topic. And this is why they want to get
Heather Campbell:a better understanding of your ability to do this. This isn't
Heather Campbell:done to give the candidates the answers, but it allows them to
Heather Campbell:just prepare and put their best foot foot forward, I have a
Heather Campbell:personal belief that we live in a culture that glorifies fast
Heather Campbell:paced, and on the spot decision making, which is necessary, I
Heather Campbell:realized that but I think there's also a lot of value and
Heather Campbell:strength in allowing people to process and plan. We talked
Heather Campbell:about closing the interview. So I'll ask them to, you know, wrap
Heather Campbell:up the interview, usually they've asked their questions of
Heather Campbell:the client. But before they go, I encourage everybody to sort of
Heather Campbell:say some sort of version of of this phrase, thank them comment
Heather Campbell:on something that you've learned or something that you're
Heather Campbell:grateful for? And then say some version of before I go, Are
Heather Campbell:there any last minute hesitations, reservations or
Heather Campbell:concerns you have about my candidacy? I don't want them to
Heather Campbell:say do you have any last minute questions, it's reservations,
Heather Campbell:hesitations or concerns, I feel that this is so important,
Heather Campbell:because they do have something they'll probably share it with,
Heather Campbell:you now have an opportunity to address it on the spot. The last
Heather Campbell:thing I want is for the client to say, Well, they didn't really
Heather Campbell:talk about their experience doing this, but they never
Heather Campbell:asked, they never got the opportunity to actually like,
Heather Campbell:share a little bit more about that. And if it is something
Heather Campbell:that maybe it's a weakness that you do have, you still could
Heather Campbell:address it and maybe find something that is a you know, a
Heather Campbell:skill set that that's very similar, or you're able to, you
Heather Campbell:know, sort of just know where they feel that you have
Heather Campbell:something that doesn't meet the needs. And again, it's just an
Heather Campbell:opportunity to, to address it candid information is really,
Heather Campbell:really important. I think it's an old question and allows
Heather Campbell:people just some strength at the end to sort of close it up on
Heather Campbell:their terms, then we will schedule a debrief with the
Heather Campbell:candidate as well. So I want to talk with them, ideally, an hour
Heather Campbell:after their interview sometime within that hour, or just
Heather Campbell:immediately after. And so we scheduled that for just a 15
Heather Campbell:minute thing, Hey, your interviews over, give me a call,
Heather Campbell:let's get let's talk about how it went questions that typically
Heather Campbell:asked her, you know, logistics, like was everybody on time? Was
Heather Campbell:there any tech issues? How did it go? Things like that. And
Heather Campbell:then I'll ask tell me very, very broadly, like, how do you feel
Heather Campbell:that it went, and some listening for things like, again, enhanced
Heather Campbell:enthusiasm, anything that they feel they maybe didn't do? So?
Heather Campbell:Well, we'll talk about what did they learn from the interview?
Heather Campbell:Were there questions that you told me you wanted to ask? Did
Heather Campbell:you get to ask those? And were there additional? Was there
Heather Campbell:additional information that that you were able to hear and learn?
Heather Campbell:Based on how you're feeling so far? Do you feel like this is a
Heather Campbell:job that you can handle? As well as is this something that's
Heather Campbell:going to challenge you enough? You know, so where do they kind
Heather Campbell:of land with that, based on what they learned about the job? How
Heather Campbell:is the synergy with the people that you talk to, especially if
Heather Campbell:this is somebody that they would be reporting to or appear? And
Heather Campbell:we'll just kind of go through those questions. And again, kind
Heather Campbell:of just letting them download on how it went? I asked them about
Heather Campbell:that question, how they close the interview? If they did they
Heather Campbell:ask it be? Did they have any sort of responses? And then were
Heather Campbell:they able to overcome anything? We next then coach them to, of
Heather Campbell:course, write a thank you note. But what I would say is based on
Heather Campbell:this debriefing with me, is there anything that you and I
Heather Campbell:just talked about that you could add and include into a thank you
Heather Campbell:note, maybe it's something that you wish you would have
Heather Campbell:clarified or something you were really grateful that you learned
Heather Campbell:or something that you found as a connection between that that
Heather Campbell:candidate or that client and yourself, those are the things
Heather Campbell:to add into a thank you note, I feel that these are super
Heather Campbell:important, I want you to make it less generic and more personal.
Heather Campbell:So again, anything that you may have have connected on, I have
Heather Campbell:had many clients tell me that a good thank you note has had a
Heather Campbell:candidate rise above others because of the effort that was
Heather Campbell:put into a good Sanku no need to do anything to the mail anymore.
Heather Campbell:Virtual note is just fine. I get asked that question a lot too.
Heather Campbell:You'll probably know if you made it or not sooner than a note
Heather Campbell:would get to them in the mail. And then the last part of the
Heather Campbell:debriefs that I have is just be really honest about what I'm
Heather Campbell:going to be able to have feedback, I never want to over
Heather Campbell:promise, a timeframe that I will be able to share news with them.
Heather Campbell:And regardless of the decision, I will let them know and
Heather Campbell:mechanistic client was able to offer me about how the interview
Heather Campbell:went.
Stephanie Maas:Wow. So now let's talk for just a second
Stephanie Maas:about the client debrief. Again, I think this is part of it. It's
Stephanie Maas:like a no brainer, but because so many people just take it for
Stephanie Maas:granted, it doesn't end up adding anything to the process.
Stephanie Maas:So walk us through your client debrief.
Heather Campbell:So again, this is something that we scheduled,
Heather Campbell:you know, after all of the interviews for that round, you
Heather Campbell:know, so you've got around one interview, anybody that was
Heather Campbell:involved with that will schedule that whether it's one person or
Heather Campbell:five, and we typically go through each candidate
Heather Campbell:separately, just kind of letting them share. How do they feel?
Heather Campbell:like it went with, you know, John, Sarah, Jim, I also share
Heather Campbell:with them the feedback. So I've had that conversation with the
Heather Campbell:the candidate about, you know, things that they talked about
Heather Campbell:things, they enjoyed it, maybe some like starstruck pieces that
Heather Campbell:that happen, I'll share that first so that they can kind of
Heather Campbell:usually it's good stuff because most often the candidates feel
Heather Campbell:like, you know, it went well. But they'll resonate with things
Heather Campbell:that maybe were said there, which I feel like kind of helps
Heather Campbell:them either remember some parts of those interviews that that
Heather Campbell:happened? And also find like a connection with that person,
Heather Campbell:like, oh, yeah, that we did talk about that, or Oh, no, I did,
Heather Campbell:she did share that. So I think that that part is really
Heather Campbell:important to just be candid, we'll go through each candidate,
Heather Campbell:and let everybody just sort of share. Sometimes people disagree
Heather Campbell:on stuff, which is really interesting. But I tried to just
Heather Campbell:really ask probing questions versus trying to input anything
Heather Campbell:about my experience with the candidate. Because, you know,
Heather Campbell:we're all human, sometimes I, you know, have favorites and
Heather Campbell:everything. I don't want to involve myself in that part of
Heather Campbell:the process at all. I want them to hear from each other about
Heather Campbell:how it went and how it happened. It also depends on is this a
Heather Campbell:panel appears? Or is this an executive leadership team versus
Heather Campbell:the hiring manager. And so I try to keep the hiring manager on or
Heather Campbell:record those debriefs with the client so that the hiring
Heather Campbell:manager can whoever the decision maker is about the candidate, I
Heather Campbell:want to make sure that they're able to listen to on how those
Heather Campbell:debriefs with went with everybody else involved. But
Heather Campbell:again, on the back end, I've gotten evaluation forms from
Heather Campbell:everybody in real time, right after an interview, that then I
Heather Campbell:typically will either share or talk with the hiring manager,
Heather Campbell:you know, about how those how those why, and, you know,
Heather Campbell:usually it just kind of ends with a, you know, thank you, I
Heather Campbell:really, really appreciate your time, because oftentimes, if it
Heather Campbell:isn't the hiring manager, you know, they took time out of
Heather Campbell:their day to make sure that these interviews happen, which I
Heather Campbell:think is really important to value their time as well. And
Heather Campbell:again, I know upfront, who is making the decisions, and so if
Heather Campbell:it's a group of folks that did the interview process that are
Heather Campbell:just there to provide conflict, a balance, thank you, and we
Heather Campbell:didn't move on. And if it is the hiring manager, you know,
Heather Campbell:there's been our goal is to always have two good candidates
Heather Campbell:at the very end. And so oftentimes, it's a lot of
Heather Campbell:probing and what were the things that were the real strengths,
Heather Campbell:what are the things you know, that that maybe you feel like
Heather Campbell:long term could be an issue or those kinds of things? So So
Heather Campbell:really, it's all about just being really intentional about
Heather Campbell:the questions, I'm asking them so that they can come to a
Heather Campbell:conclusion for themselves on whether a candidate is.
Stephanie Maas:Candidly, listening to you talk, two huge
Stephanie Maas:takeaways. Number one, your candidates have got to feel like
Stephanie Maas:you are a huge ally and advocate for them. Again, to our point
Stephanie Maas:earlier, most folks interviewing is not what they do for a
Stephanie Maas:living. So getting into a situation where you're really
Stephanie Maas:preparing them. And I love what you said about the authenticity,
Stephanie Maas:you're not preparing them to be a quote unquote, good
Stephanie Maas:interviewer, but rather preparing them to put their best
Stephanie Maas:foot forward to maximize the time that they spend with folks
Stephanie Maas:knowing that they're covering, you know, thoughts, questions,
Stephanie Maas:concerns, and an hour. Yeah, anytime you have to have a
Stephanie Maas:meaningful conversation, a prep would be super helpful. That's
Stephanie Maas:incredible. And then, on the client side, the attention to
Stephanie Maas:detail that you provide, has got to give them tremendous
Stephanie Maas:confidence when it's time for them to make a decision.
Heather Campbell:Thank you a search ago that I had this year,
Heather Campbell:I've had the candidate that was the number two seed that didn't
Heather Campbell:get the job, right, Greg, my boss an email telling him just
Heather Campbell:how important that process of the interview like the prep
Heather Campbell:debrief with her was a professional that how much it
Heather Campbell:supported her. It was really, really enjoyable to read,
Heather Campbell:because it was the person that didn't get the job that felt the
Heather Campbell:like need to share.
Stephanie Maas:Man, what a tribute to you. Okay, anything
Stephanie Maas:else that we haven't talked about that you want to make sure
Stephanie Maas:it gets on here?
Heather Campbell:I haven't worked for other search firms. I
Heather Campbell:don't know what this process is for other groups. But I think I
Heather Campbell:believe firmly that thinking ahead does this the best. I
Heather Campbell:think that thinking ahead, really owns this part of the
Heather Campbell:process values, it takes it very seriously. It isn't just
Heather Campbell:something that's like Oak Park, we got to make sure this happens
Heather Campbell:for myself, and I know many others, whether it's a nonprofit
Heather Campbell:team, or I'm assuming, you know, other groups. There's a lot of
Heather Campbell:care that goes into this because it is what makes our ratios so,
Heather Campbell:so tight. And it's what makes us be able to say that, you know,
Heather Campbell:we get we get candidates in seats, even though yes, we're
Heather Campbell:finding the great talent. I feel like we're also stewarding a
Heather Campbell:part of the process that just maybe not doesn't get as much attention.
Stephanie Maas:I think it's a huge advantage for working with
Stephanie Maas:a boutique firm versus and again, everybody has the right
Stephanie Maas:to earn a living however they choose and different models fit
Stephanie Maas:different people but thinking ahead being a boutique firm
Stephanie Maas:versus a resume broker or volume shop. This is an area that we
Stephanie Maas:really have an opportunity to make a significant impact, even
Stephanie Maas:to your point on the folks who don't get the job. Yeah. Thank
Stephanie Maas:you so much for your willingness to share this with our
Stephanie Maas:listeners. I'm going to encourage if anybody has any
Stephanie Maas:additional thoughts or questions or wants to see some of the
Stephanie Maas:documentation that Heather sends out, I know she's incredibly
Stephanie Maas:approachable. You can find her on LinkedIn reach out, you can
Stephanie Maas:find her through our website thinking ahead.com Thank the
Stephanie Maas:listeners for being with us. Thank you, Heather.
Heather Campbell:Thank you for having me.
